Comments on: Planet Pluto! http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/ Space Mining, Space Settlement, and Space Science! Fri, 18 May 2018 19:34:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.7 By: cinnamonblue http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-27816 Mon, 03 Aug 2015 10:24:53 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-27816 Phillip – certainly an excellent article with lots of thoughts I never would have expected, mainly: “Ironically, the more recent re-definition of a planet – the one that kicked Pluto out of the planet club – was not made to enforce the new paradigm, but was instead made to preserve the old one.” Didn’t see THAT coming! And I’m still trying to digest that planetary migration thing and your scenario of Jupiter kicking around Mercury and causing more havoc sometime in the future (many milleniums (sp) from now, I hope…).

I think you’re right in that definitions and language do interplay with culture. How it will play out educationally is also something to consider. I did note your thoughts. Sounds as though reaching out to educators about a changing view of the solar system is something your scientific community needs to do more of (just a thought); this is a great time to take advantage of the interest in space that is higher than it has been for quite some time.

Anyway, this was a very thoughtful and enjoyable post – with great pictures, too.

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By: Phil Metzger http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-27160 Fri, 29 May 2015 04:52:22 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-27160 Michael, thanks!

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By: Michael Frost http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-27155 Thu, 28 May 2015 16:26:40 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-27155 Dr. Metzger,

This was an amazing article read and quite in depth regarding Pluto, its role in the Solar System as well as the factoids and falsities surrounding it. I have shared this article and I hope that some of my peers delve into this and find it just as interesting and impacting.

A pleasure to read!

Michael Frost.

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By: laurel2000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-26348 Thu, 09 Apr 2015 02:38:09 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-26348 I love this article! It always seemed to me that the new paradigm is a solar system not of nine planets but of several hundred or more. What is wrong with that? Some astronomers argued that we cannot have “too many planets” because that would somehow “devalue” the term planet or because kids wouldn’t be able to memorize their names. Memorization is not important for learning; it is a relic of long ago when we knew little more about the planets than their names.

Interestingly, according to the IAU definition, no exoplanet qualifies as a planet because the definition specifically states that a planet must orbit the Sun, not a star. Even if that were changed, it still would not account for rogue planets which float freely in space without orbiting any star.

The IAU definition is bad science because it blurs the distinction between tiny, shapeless asteroids and comets on the one hand and objects in hydrostatic equilibrium on the other. Those who argue that Pluto is fundamentally different from the larger planets ignore the fact that it actually shares many of the same intrinsic properties they do. It has geology and weather and is layered into core, mantle, and crust. In fact, Pluto has more in common with Earth than does Jupiter, yet the IAU puts Earth in the same class as Jupiter and excludes Pluto.

Maybe we need a detailed classification system for planets similar to the Herzsprung-Russell Diagram used for stars. Calling dwarf planets “minor planets” is not a good idea because the term “minor planet” is a synonym for asteroids and comets, which dwarf planets are not. At minimum, we should do away with terms like “major” and “minor” when describing planets and instead use descriptive terms such as terrestrial, gas giant, ice giant, dwarf, etc.

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By: Twila Gore Peck http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-26328 Wed, 08 Apr 2015 17:35:43 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-26328 Very thoughtful and well-expressed. I find myself thinking a lot about this article, the questions of planethood, the historically exclusionary attitudes, and how this all is echoed in our cultural diversity and related issues. If I were teaching a lesson on diversity and evolving attitudes, I would use Pluto as an illustration.
So excited to see how everything we know about planets is changing with this year’s missions!

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By: ashley858 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-25964 Sat, 28 Mar 2015 14:50:23 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-25964 Given that the definition of a planet now includes clearing the orbit as part of the definition, which is waht excludes Pluto (assuming I’ve understood the argument correctly) then pedantically one could argue that Jupiter isn’t a planet, because of the existence of the leading and trailing Trojan asteroids in its orbit means it hasn’t properly cleared its orbit (I’m not saying Jupiter isn’t a planet, only that definitions can be twisted to suit a purpose).

I understand the purpose of the current definitions, but I don’t agree with them, and would be happy to see our solar systems number of planets increase as a consequence of letting Pluto be a planet.

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By: NMarzian http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-25893 Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:07:27 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-25893 Phil,

thank you for another very good article and the explanation of why it does not make sense from a scientific perspective to get rid of Pluto as a planet. You should be right with saying that it does not bring any benefit to not count dwarf planets to the club of planets. Why then calling it dwarf planet?

Anyhow, as you stated the list of celestial objects in our Solar System is not carved into stone, as last year and also recently again there have been published reports on two new very large planets X and Y that so far might just have been missed. (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/the-solar-system-may-have-two-undiscovered-planets/)

Science is to keep the mind and discourse open, and whenever there should be new evidence, one must not be too proud to accept it and possibly change a model. But of course the history of science knows a lot of examples how this principle was ignored when one’s theory and thereby name suddenly were endangered to become obsolete in the further debate.

To come to an end I want to share a mnemonic that is known in German and which helps to memorise the (as of today) correct order of the planets:

“Mein Vater erklärt mir jeden Sonntag unsere neun Planeten”, translated roughly as “My father explains to me every Sunday our nine planets” and of course stands for: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto.
Actually it would fit better to chose Saturday instead of Sunday. You said it above that Saturday in fact stands for Saturn.

Without Pluto one could now say “Mein Vater erklärt mir jeden Sonntag unseren Nachthimmel”, “My father explains to me every Sunday our night sky”.
But I like the first one more, as since my childhood I have been used to see Pluto as a planet of its own, even if a very small one.

Best regards,
Nico

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By: Martin Vavřík http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/planet-pluto/#comment-25604 Fri, 20 Mar 2015 05:37:23 +0000 http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/?p=497#comment-25604 Isn’t it just some play with words? ” Our star has literally hundreds of planets, including the eight major ones…” OK, so let’s call major ones planets and other ones differently. This does not mean we will not learn about them. Yes, there are many objects in our Solar system ranging in size (and shape) from Sun to some small dust particles. And we are just trying to rise some limits to make categories. One sure limit is between star and planet (which is really just matter of mass). And I also understand the limit between 8 planets and Pluto (and others), which we were aware long long time ago before AU congress and we started to call Pluto “not a real planet” when we realize that it is just a member of a bigger group of “something-like-planets”. And this MADE ME AWARE about this new groups and do not obscure the knowledge. And I DO FEEL that the Solar system is much diverse ever since then. And I am very thrilled with the New Horizons journey, as I was with Voyager journey when I was much much younger. 🙂

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